In comparison to what Russia is doing, European NATO countries are incredibly weak in the realm of influencing public opinion. It’s not enough to fix our deficiencies in capabilities for defensive warfighting and corresponding production. Also an army of competent, honest and credible journalists must be recruited and tasked with examining the methods and claims of Russian propaganda.
Could not agree more. We need to actively fight extremely powerful russian terrorist state's information and political warfares!
Before russian terrorist to influence a target nation had establish pri-russian political party, pay journalists and academics, send heaps of illegals(sleepers), turn the business people, corrupt public service... It was a very long and labourous process. They're still doing all for that today. It's just that thanks to the social media, russian terrorist state influencers gained access to practically every single individual in the West. Thanks to the social media and under the disguise of our cherished freedom of speech, they are able to brainwash people en masse. None of the democratic countries seems to address this issue yet.
russian terrorist state's political and information warfares are ones of the most powerful weapons they've developed.
We need to shout to our governments to do more, much more to counter it. The whole civil society need to be mobilised and made aware of these russian terrorist state's malicious activities.
But that’s the thing. There are plenty of journalists who’ve done exactly that. @ryanmcbeth is one. But their own audience doesn’t need convincing, the challenge is how to create something that can infiltrate Fox News, X, Rumble, and the right-wing media stranglehold. I’m more in favour of teaching people how to look for bots and recognize the tricks. How to be critical thinkers and suspicious when something they read provokes strong emotions. Understand the algorithms that lead you down groupthink holes. I’ve heard one of the Scandinavian countries has begun to teach it in school, and I’m afraid that’s the only way it will be effective. Might be too late for “grownups”?
I think that it is not too late for people who are adults in terms of age, but not necessarily in terms of ability to tell the difference even just between trustworthy information and ridiculous disinformation.
I would suggest that but just like in other areas of warfighting, mass matters a lot. Yes, there are some good journalists somewhere out there doing very good work. But IMO far too few in comparison to the massive numbers that are IMO needed for them to be effective in countering disinformation warfare.
Around here where I live, you don’t meet them.
In fact, you don’t regularly meet any journalists at all anymore. The local newspaper still exists, but there are no local journalists around anymore. Case in point: Two and a half years ago, the house right next to where I live burned. It was a big fire, so big that the firefighters of three municipalities came to put it out. Not a single journalist came to look and gather impressions etc. What did the local newspaper report about it? Not a single word. If there had been any journalists in the general area, they couldn’t possibly have missed it, it would have been a big story. (In fact they did publish a small text the next day about a much smaller fire somewhere else that did not do nearly as much damage.)
For another example, in another comment you mentioned Covid19 vaccines misinformation. Among people whom I know around here, there were rumours circulating about supposedly local people —always identified only vaguely, e.g. as a relative of “a colleague” of a certain friend— who supposedly had severe complications from the vaccine but —it was claimed— experienced how that information was being suppressed. What should IMO have happened is local journalists asking around, investigating both the claims and the origins of the rumours, and then sharing, both informally and through formally published articles, what is the truth about the matter. As I mentioned, we still have a local newspaper, it’s the journalists who are missing.
The country is investing in military (mostly) men in uniforms who could fight with guns if called upon to do so, but the hot war that is actually going on around here, a war that is mostly happening in the realm of misinformation propaganda, is simply not getting fought at all in any relevant way. In fact recruitment of journalists couldn’t possibly be too hard, as traditional journalistic jobs (i.e. jobs that are financed by publications) are getting axed all the time, with the journalists being forced to look for jobs in other areas.
We have always to be on the defensive, because the west has little to no access to russian (or chinese) social media. We can't do to them what they do to us, create polarization and dysfunction within their own population. It's frustrating.
I would suggest that in the realm of countering propaganda, our responsibility does not extend much further beyond making the necessary kind of journalism happen that shines a true and bright light on what is going on. That allows people in the Free World to gain clarity. It is true that what we can reasonably do in regard to disseminating such counter-propaganda information into Russia is limited. So what? Russians can disseminate further if they so choose, for example by reviving the practice of samizdat.
Well yes, that’s the rational argument. Or the free speech purists. Counter with correct facts. Unfortunately propaganda is created with enough “truthiness” and marketing appeal (they’ve got tons of data on consumers), that it draws a far larger audience than disinformation sleuths and bloggers. When the truth is revealed it’s either too late, or is treated as propaganda itself. If you post a fact about covid 19 or any of the vaccines for instance, you’re immediately a shill for Big Pharma, or all the science data is fake and they can “prove” it. Ugh.
His criticism of the EU suggest that he also regards VAT as a tarrifs on American imports. I wouldn't want to be the person trying to explain that one to him.
Yes, but who actually believes such obvious nonsense? It is so silly that you would need to be extremely unobservant to be sucked in so easily. I don't want our European leaders to spend their time in front of the cameras but I do want them to just quietly get on with what is necessary so that we can see results and not posturings. If it is agreed, do it, but if not, then get it agreed away from the media.
Shankar, we are used this BS in the USA! It’s the oldest trick in the fascist playbook! Divide the masses (with lies if necessary), to Conquer the Whole!
Geopolitical Fascism is having a hard time keeping up with EUROPEAN UNITY!
In comparison to what Russia is doing, European NATO countries are incredibly weak in the realm of influencing public opinion. It’s not enough to fix our deficiencies in capabilities for defensive warfighting and corresponding production. Also an army of competent, honest and credible journalists must be recruited and tasked with examining the methods and claims of Russian propaganda.
yes. this is something that needs to be done: Also an army of competent, honest and credible journalists must be recruited
we need the same kind of operator as the kremlin, take them on at their own game
yes
Could not agree more. We need to actively fight extremely powerful russian terrorist state's information and political warfares!
Before russian terrorist to influence a target nation had establish pri-russian political party, pay journalists and academics, send heaps of illegals(sleepers), turn the business people, corrupt public service... It was a very long and labourous process. They're still doing all for that today. It's just that thanks to the social media, russian terrorist state influencers gained access to practically every single individual in the West. Thanks to the social media and under the disguise of our cherished freedom of speech, they are able to brainwash people en masse. None of the democratic countries seems to address this issue yet.
russian terrorist state's political and information warfares are ones of the most powerful weapons they've developed.
We need to shout to our governments to do more, much more to counter it. The whole civil society need to be mobilised and made aware of these russian terrorist state's malicious activities.
But that’s the thing. There are plenty of journalists who’ve done exactly that. @ryanmcbeth is one. But their own audience doesn’t need convincing, the challenge is how to create something that can infiltrate Fox News, X, Rumble, and the right-wing media stranglehold. I’m more in favour of teaching people how to look for bots and recognize the tricks. How to be critical thinkers and suspicious when something they read provokes strong emotions. Understand the algorithms that lead you down groupthink holes. I’ve heard one of the Scandinavian countries has begun to teach it in school, and I’m afraid that’s the only way it will be effective. Might be too late for “grownups”?
I think that it is not too late for people who are adults in terms of age, but not necessarily in terms of ability to tell the difference even just between trustworthy information and ridiculous disinformation.
I would suggest that but just like in other areas of warfighting, mass matters a lot. Yes, there are some good journalists somewhere out there doing very good work. But IMO far too few in comparison to the massive numbers that are IMO needed for them to be effective in countering disinformation warfare.
Around here where I live, you don’t meet them.
In fact, you don’t regularly meet any journalists at all anymore. The local newspaper still exists, but there are no local journalists around anymore. Case in point: Two and a half years ago, the house right next to where I live burned. It was a big fire, so big that the firefighters of three municipalities came to put it out. Not a single journalist came to look and gather impressions etc. What did the local newspaper report about it? Not a single word. If there had been any journalists in the general area, they couldn’t possibly have missed it, it would have been a big story. (In fact they did publish a small text the next day about a much smaller fire somewhere else that did not do nearly as much damage.)
For another example, in another comment you mentioned Covid19 vaccines misinformation. Among people whom I know around here, there were rumours circulating about supposedly local people —always identified only vaguely, e.g. as a relative of “a colleague” of a certain friend— who supposedly had severe complications from the vaccine but —it was claimed— experienced how that information was being suppressed. What should IMO have happened is local journalists asking around, investigating both the claims and the origins of the rumours, and then sharing, both informally and through formally published articles, what is the truth about the matter. As I mentioned, we still have a local newspaper, it’s the journalists who are missing.
The country is investing in military (mostly) men in uniforms who could fight with guns if called upon to do so, but the hot war that is actually going on around here, a war that is mostly happening in the realm of misinformation propaganda, is simply not getting fought at all in any relevant way. In fact recruitment of journalists couldn’t possibly be too hard, as traditional journalistic jobs (i.e. jobs that are financed by publications) are getting axed all the time, with the journalists being forced to look for jobs in other areas.
We have always to be on the defensive, because the west has little to no access to russian (or chinese) social media. We can't do to them what they do to us, create polarization and dysfunction within their own population. It's frustrating.
I would suggest that in the realm of countering propaganda, our responsibility does not extend much further beyond making the necessary kind of journalism happen that shines a true and bright light on what is going on. That allows people in the Free World to gain clarity. It is true that what we can reasonably do in regard to disseminating such counter-propaganda information into Russia is limited. So what? Russians can disseminate further if they so choose, for example by reviving the practice of samizdat.
Well yes, that’s the rational argument. Or the free speech purists. Counter with correct facts. Unfortunately propaganda is created with enough “truthiness” and marketing appeal (they’ve got tons of data on consumers), that it draws a far larger audience than disinformation sleuths and bloggers. When the truth is revealed it’s either too late, or is treated as propaganda itself. If you post a fact about covid 19 or any of the vaccines for instance, you’re immediately a shill for Big Pharma, or all the science data is fake and they can “prove” it. Ugh.
Russians lie and their useful idiots spread those lies.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20250512-france-condemns-fake-news-over-europe-leaders-cocaine-accusation
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2025/05/12/russian-propagandists-spread-cocaine-rumor-about-macron-claiming-a-tissue-in-a-video-from-leaders-kyiv-trip-is-a-little-white-bag
This is Brian Beutlers Off Message this morning i had to share this with everyone https://open.substack.com/pub/brianbeutler/p/i-figured-out-how-donald-trump-thinks?r=fa5ey&utm_medium=ios
His criticism of the EU suggest that he also regards VAT as a tarrifs on American imports. I wouldn't want to be the person trying to explain that one to him.
Yes, but who actually believes such obvious nonsense? It is so silly that you would need to be extremely unobservant to be sucked in so easily. I don't want our European leaders to spend their time in front of the cameras but I do want them to just quietly get on with what is necessary so that we can see results and not posturings. If it is agreed, do it, but if not, then get it agreed away from the media.
that went viral. big time and got picked up by a media in europe. That is how it landed in my inbox.
Shankar, we are used this BS in the USA! It’s the oldest trick in the fascist playbook! Divide the masses (with lies if necessary), to Conquer the Whole!
Geopolitical Fascism is having a hard time keeping up with EUROPEAN UNITY!
The Putin Fascists must “Grasp at Straws!”
eu/nato need to get their arse in gear and set up a disinformation center of their own